Christian SLASHER

[lit_gal]

Okay, I got an odd email, so it's off to ranty land for me. After all, I'm not going to all this work just to send it off to one person. The email asked if I had "seen the light" since my slash is slowing down and I’m starting to write more het/gen (Necessary Evil, my Firefly Jayne/River, Shadows of the Past).

I sat and stared at the email in a little bit of shock. First, I'm exploring other characters, and so that may or may not lead to het/gen writing. Second, I don't have to "see the light" because I am Christian and I am a slash writer and I am okay with being both at once. Before you go casting those stones, I really want to talk about the soul searching I did when I first decided I couldn't "fake" being straight. I really had to consider how my faith and my sexuality "fit."

The Story of Sodom and Gomorrah
Let's start with the biggie: Sodom and Gomorrah. The Lord did say of the men of Sodom and Gomorrah, "their sin is very grave." So, what were they doing? They were raping and committing adultery and ignoring the Lord (all sins pretty much worthy of hell and brim fire without homosexuality being involved at all).

Besides, I refuse to take that story as a moral on how to live a moral and virtuous life. The hero of that particular story was Lot, a man who, in order to save two strangers from being raped by the crowd, offers his "two daughters who have never slept with a man." Sweet. The crowd's refusal saves his daughters, but this is not a man I care to emulate. Then again, he later sleeps with both his daughters. Yes, in the Biblical story, his daughters get him drunk, but if he is sober enough to get it up and impregnate not one but two women in a night, he's sober enough to know the women are his daughters.

Direct Biblical Condemnation of Homosexuality
So, what about Corinthians and Romans where the bible says "homosexual offenders" will not inherit the kingdom of God and condemns the act?  Well, I might be more impressed if not for the translation difficulty. One bible translates that same line as "those who use and abuse each other, use and abuse sex" another as "nor abusers of themselves with mankind" Now, even assuming that I accept the translation as being specific to homosexuality, I still don't take this as the ultimate argument.

See, the Bible bans a lot of different activities. Leviticus says that a man who touches "carcasses of unclean wild animals or of unclean livestock" is guilty and must be condemned, even if he did not realize the beast was unclean. The Bible specifically bans eating camel, rabbit, pig, and rock badger because they do not have "a split hoof completely divided and [chew] the cud." The Bible even requires circumcision to show faithfulness.

I take these Biblical condemnations (which are not part of the 10 Commandments or one of Jesus' teachings) as practical protections since people back then didn't understand how disease spread from a carcass or how to avoid the worms in pork and circumcision avoided infections in people without regular access to water. I do not believe that you go to hell for touching a carcass accidentally or eating pork or for having a foreskin. The condemnation of homosexuality strikes me as very similar. The anal canal simply doesn't have the immune system protections of the vagina, and so there is a greater chance of disease UNLESS a person knows how to reduce that risk. Yep, the condom. So, just like pork was once danger and banned, homosexuality was once dangerous and banned. That time is gone.

My Writings
So, I have no problem sending Blair to a monastery where he reads Proverbs, talks to a monk about God, and decides to go back to Jim's arms (Finding Home). I find nothing irreligious about homosexuality or heterosexuality or bisexuality. Sure, I don't have many of my characters going to church, largely because none of the characters I use are big church-goers, but I am perfectly comfortable being a Christian slash writer. Get over it.

So, will I write gen and het stories? Sure. I actually have a weird little Xander/Harmony bunny that keeps chewing on my shoes. Will I write slash? Yep. I consider Learning Curve and Trickster open universes, and the Spangel bunny I didn't get to this summer is in the corner sulking and glaring at me.

If you don't like that or if you think that makes me evil, GO AWAY. Oh, and why were you reading me in the first place?

Comments

[julia-here.livejournal.com]

It's my impression that people are no longer taught to read the Bible as I was: Gospels first, everything else through the light of the Gospel. Instead they read front-to-back, and since around the middle of Leviticus things slow down to a crawl, they mostly remember Genesis and Exodus and then skip ahead to Revelations to see how it ends.

Julia, and what do the gospels say about homosexuality: nothing. A whole lot about tending to ones own lack of charity, though

[lit-gal.livejournal.com]

Exactly. Romans is the only comment on homosexuality, and that unknown author (probably Paul) pretty well condemned all things Roman. And he called homosexually unnatural without actually calling it evil or banning it or suggesting one went to hell for doing it. I grew up believing that a Christian believed Christ, and He was silent on the issue.

[lit-gal.livejournal.com]

Only New Testament comment... the old testament has plenty to say about lots of things, like eating camels and how to use bedding. And I agree that Leviticus is pretty much the brick wall for anyone trying to read front to back.

[julia-here.livejournal.com]

Paul pretty much admits that he has personal issues with a whole lot of stuff- including heterosexual relations within marriage, which he treats with contempt bordering on horror ("better to marry than to burn" isn't exactly a sex-positive message). Even Paul, in Romans, condemns gossiping about other people's sex lives right alone with sexual sins. And, in light of gospel, Paul naming sins doesn't remove them from the class of things which God understands and forgives.

Of course, Jesus tripped himself up on a little joke; when he talked about looking upon a woman with lust in your mind he underestimated the ability of most people to deny that they do things like that.

Julia, it's like the last chapter of Job, when God delivers the smack-down to everyone who thinks they know how he goes about things; most people think he's excepting their own position from that general condemnation of error.

[fluterbev.livejournal.com]

I'm sure your critic didn't bargain on you having such a good grasp of the issues from a historical/religious standpoint. Good for you for reaching such an informed and well-considered accommodation with your faith and your writing :-).

Meself, I have long been very comfortable with my identity as a bisexual atheist with pagan leanings, who also writes slash. So if anyone tries to save me, it's far too late, and they should save their breath! :-D

[jans-intentions.livejournal.com]

Sing it!

I studied the history or religion and women's history and a lot of other things and it left me unable to really embrace formal religion. I can take a distant enjoyment, but the problem is that men wrote the bible and men are fallable.

Jesus did not hate men or women based upon their choices. Neither did any of the other great teachers.

I don't understand the argument that you can't write slash or read it and be a good Christian.

I think you can be a good person and not embrace dogma while still embracing the message.

You are right about dietary laws. That's exactly why so many exist. Also the be fruitful and multiply het message was because so many children died. You had to have a lot of kids back then or your family would die out.

The other reason why gay love was looked down on by the church fathers was because Romans were more tolerant of it. And Romans were the oppressors.

Ironically, though Romans were very family orientated and were the patriarchal model that is seen as the norm today.

[strickens-girl.livejournal.com]

I love it when narrowminded hate mongers try to take on an educated, intelligent writer. It is always very entertaining. *g*

As the daughter of a retired pentacostal preacher, I so agree with your points here. I love the example of Lot. He is always held up as a righteous man, but he was really horrible.

The Bible is flawed. It was written by men and translated by men who all had their own faults and could easily sway the words to fit their own beliefs.

I always want to tell people like this, "I don't write this to convert you. This is for fun. If you don't like, go away and stop trying to convert me. It's not going to work."

Excellently said. You made my day.

[not-purrrfect.livejournal.com]

That is awesomely cool that you can see both sides.

I'm proud to know you. I myself am agnostic/wiccan. But I respect your views.

[dedra.livejournal.com]

and here are a couple more things to think about...

When God created the world, He wanted man to populate it, and quick...Ecclesiastes states that man's purpose on the planet is to worship God...therefore, no people, no worship...in many ways, that is why any sexual deviance (including masterbation and withdrawal for birth control *see the story of Tamar, Judah, and Onan for that one*) were considered sinful because they were misusing the direct purpose of the sexual act--populating the world...

Now we are overpopulated, and it continues...

And something that my great-uncles used to preach (they were both ministers) is that the reason why we no longer make sacrifices to God or follow dietary laws/hygiene laws as laid down in Leviticus was because when Christ was crucified, His sacrifice made all those other laws null and void...we therefore do not follow those laws because they are no longer in effect...otherwise we would still be taking a paddle to dig a hole outside of the city limits, defecating, and covering same with the paddle to prevent disease (thank God for flush toilets, I say)...

To condemn homosexuality because the Old Testament condemned it is to follow an outdated law that has no further bearing on the world today...not only does our world suffer from overpopulation, it also has famine, evil in the guise of religious leadership, and more problems that the Bible does not cover...

Homosexuality is present in many forms in all life, including plant life and the animal kingdom...not just in humans...

And, if you're interested, look up the Gaia Theory...scientists have proposed that the world is like a living organism and mankind is similar to a virus...to keep itself alive and functional, the planet has begun to mutate our genetics to 'protect' itself, much like the immune system of the human body...the easiest way to mutate? promote relationships that are physically unable to reproduce, thus decreasing the population slowly but surely...and how to do that? homosexuality, pure and simple...monogamous homosexuals are unable to reproduce, thus reducing the burden of overpopulation and easing the burden of the 'virus' of the human race on the planet...

just some thoughts to add to the pot and cook it a little bit...maybe a religio-scientific stew...

[teryl-brat42.livejournal.com]

You nailed it with the Jesus saying to no longer follow the laws of the Old Testament. I was hoping someone would mention that too.

As for homosexuality to control population, I think it could partially help. The best way to control population is for more people to be sterile. My partner and I are planning on having children, so we don't fit the model for reducing population. In fact, she wants 8 kids! I talked her down to 4 though, lol. A lot of homosexuals do want kids so they either adopt, give birth temselves, or have a surrogate mother. It's a great idea, but homosexuality alone won't decrease the population.

[doingsoso.livejournal.com]

"When God created the world, He wanted man to populate it, and quick...Ecclesiastes states that man's purpose on the planet is to worship God...therefore, no people, no worship...in many ways, that is why any sexual deviance (including masterbation and withdrawal for birth control *see the story of Tamar, Judah, and Onan for that one*) were considered sinful because they were misusing the direct purpose of the sexual act--populating the world..."


Yeaho the same problem after the flood. That's when the so called Noahide laws went into effect.

Hmmm, A couple of other points too. Adam and Eve had two sons, who then had kids, who did they mate with? Their sisters? Incest city, man! There are people who will argue that that was before the commandments so it wasn't a sin then, buttttt.

A lot of christians run around talking about how they hate the Devil, but there's not one word in the Book that says God hates Lucifer. In fact Lucifer boldly walked into heaven and had an argument with God over Job.

One has to stop and ponder things like that. Including the fact that David was a womanizer and committed adultery, then had the woman's husband killed because he got her pregnant and was trying to cover it up. He was supposed to be the apple of God's eye.

I don't think I would have liked the apostle Paul too much. He didn't seem to like women or have a lot of respect for them. Sigh. Oh well.

The way I look at it is this. I have to account to God for what I do. Not for what everyone else does. It's not my business to mind someone else's soul, it's my business to mind my own and I have enough trouble tending to mine to try to tend everyone else's too. It's too bad a lot of christians think that forgiven means perfect and therefore they have a right to tend your conscience and your soul for you. I think Jesus said it best.

"Why are you trying to pull the splinter out of your brother's eye when you have a log sticking out of your own. Go get the log out of your own eye first."(Paraphrased)

"Those who haven't sinned, cast the first stone." (Paraphrased)

Heeee, a lot of people can't seem to figure out what that means:)

[dedra.livejournal.com]

Actually, another point of thought when you brought up Lucifer...

Lucifer actually means bringer of light...he was the most beloved angel of God and He favored him above all of His other angels...so much so that it's the reason that Lucifer believed that he was equal with God and actually tried to take over Heaven...

When God had to cast him out of Heaven to maintain the peace, it truly broke His heart to lose his favorite angel...

And Paul...Paul was misogynistic to the extreme, plus there have even been theories that he himself was gay...there's a part in the NT (don't remember where) when he talks about the weakness of the flesh--that particular phrase was usually used when they were talking about homosexuality...and he was using it to describe his own situation...

[kitty-poker1.livejournal.com]

I'm flailing a bit here because I've been an atheist since I was 14. I read the Bible through and it didn't take. It seemed inconsistent and judgmental to my 20th century eyes.

The dietary restrictions seem to be a matter of health and hygiene. It was potentially fatal to eat pork and shellfish when they couldn't be properly refrigerated. Salmonella is not pretty.

The sexual guidelines? Animal intestine skin was once used as a condom but it was far from safe. Things have moved on a great deal since then.

Circumcision is performed as a matter of course in children in hot climates, including Australia, which is an essentially Christian society. Again, a matter of health considerations.

That it was incorporated into religious tenets must have seemed sensible at the time but the time has gone, in view of the fact that most people now bathe every day and indoor bathrooms are the norm.

In short, that email was well-meaning but so silly it's hard to comprehend. Your choices and preferences are as valid as anyone else's.

[dedra.livejournal.com]

Circumcision was actually proscribed to Abraham after he changed his name from Abram to separate him and his progeny from the other people on the planet at that time because his son's sons would be the founding tribes of Israel...plus, with the unsanitary conditions, it also prevented the women of the time from falling prey to disease and infection...(it has been proven that uncircumcised men who do not regularly cleanse beneath the foreskin can actually cause cervical changes including cervical cancer in their partners...the substance, smegma, is actually very inhospitable to the vaginal mucosa)...

[velvetwhip.livejournal.com]

I cannot believe people like this can call themselves Christians! Didn't Jesus say something about casting stones and about judging? Or am I thinking of someone else?

I feel more fortunate every day. Not only did the church I attended as a child welcome gays (and everyone else), there was even a gay couple who were ministers and filled in for the regular pastor from time to time. I was well into my teens before I realized people thought there was something wrong with gay people. Far too old to ever learn how to understand such things!


Gabrielle

[raissad.livejournal.com]

Amen! :)

[slow-mo-panda.livejournal.com]

Yay!! I have always wondered something off-topic: Why did God create the entire earth if he meant for Adam and Eve to stay in the garden of eden? He obviously knew they would sin and then go out inot the world, right? In which case, how can he expect any other human to be sin-free?
I agree with you completely, and everyone who said that all the translations very well probably changed what the Bible originally said.

[teryl-brat42.livejournal.com]

I've hear various theories on that, my favorite being that the entire Earth was the garden of Eden. On some levels that makes perfect sense, on others it's questionable. When they messed up God just took away the protections he had on them and they had to live in (essentially) the world as we know it. They were no longer provided with food directly but had to go in search of it. Animals became their prey and vice versa. Like I said, it's a theory, but I kinda like it. Makes a lot more sense than giving them a little patch of land to live on and them kicking them out. It could also explain why we can't find the original location of the Garden of Eden. Though plate tectonics could explain that too. *shrugs*

[ambersnake]

I'm a devoted atheist and won't get into religion itself, but all this reminds me of a quote I read once. I don't know whose it is, but it went something like this: 'Personally, it's not God that I dislike. It's his fan club I can't stand'.

And though there are millions of intelligent, kind-hearted and empathic Christians like you, somehow the few that validate that quote are always the loudest.

[crimson-silver.livejournal.com]

Ah, I loved that. Good for you! I always end up getting into arguments like this with people (usually male members of my family). I myself am not homosexual, and whether other people are or not couldn't really matter less to me. And I really hate when people use the bible as an excuse for prejudice. I went to catholic school for 8 years, but my grasp on the bible still isn't good enough to compete with those people.

Basically all my babble means thank you for being much more articulate than me.

[teryl-brat42.livejournal.com]

That's just about the best summarization I've read of homosexuality vs. the Bible. It's correct, to the point, and doesn't argue for or against, but explains *why* the Bible had all those teaching originally. When you hear the why, the for/against argument just fizzles away. Sweet, thanks!

[qamratala.livejournal.com]

I applaud you for making a stand in what you believe without reducing your arguements to "nu-huh!" You said it very well.

And I am on the same page with you, Christian slash reader(I haven't the talent to write it).

[texanfan.livejournal.com]

Oh for heavens sake! I'm a Christian. Hell, I'm a leader in my church. I've struggled with the same things. As far as Sodom and Gomorrah are concerned I put it down to raping angels=bad idea. Homosexuality doesn't really enter into it.

I fully agree with you on Leviticus. As for Corinthians, you have to remember context. Corinth was an extremely cosmopolitan center with hundreds of temples, many of them populated with temple prostitutes of both genders. Sexual sin was a big deal for Paul and I think one reason it was so emphasised in these letters was because people were partying at the temples with their pagan friends then seeing no problem with coming to worship as Christians. You can't be both. You can worship in pagan temples or you can worship as a Christian.

Homosexuality was a very common practice in the Roman Empire during Jesus lifetime, yet He never mentions it at all. I find that significant.

I eagerly await you being able to read my slash story. :)

[greenheart8.livejournal.com]

Well worded. I can't quote from the bible, I've never read it, but I would like to think that if there is a God she would be cheering you on.

[dimity-blue.livejournal.com]

I really dislike it when people use their religion as an excuse to be obnoxious to others, and good for you for using that same religion to make your point. I hope your (ex?) reader 'sees the light' and practices what s/he preaches.

And I totally agree with your disclaimer: "Don't like...Don't read." When did common sense go out of fashion?

[aerianya.livejournal.com]

Jesus gave one commandment "love" period.
I think Mother Theresa said it best."If you judge people, you have no time to love them.”
I am also church leadership.
So, the many stupid things heard, make most of us cringe and wonder who this person thinks they have to defend or sell.
As in any thought or heart lifestyle.The people that make the most fuss are usually the ones who know and/or understand the very least.
People will find what they look for good or bad. Personally I choose to look for the good in everyone I meet, and hopefully they will see the same in me.
"Have you seen the light" indeed, wonder if they ever were to meet the Lord face to face, would they know Him or block His way into their church.

[emmalea-jade.livejournal.com]

I asked my preacher once why God would make me be attracted to both sexes if He did not approve of homosexuality. He told me that denial of the homosexual tendencies is a way of proving to God that I love God more than myself or others. That it was all about choices. Just like I could choose not to sin (kill, steal, be covetous, take the Lords name in vain) I could choose not to engage in homosexuality.
I have a hard time believing God would not want me happy.

[darkenedroses42.livejournal.com]

I don't particularly have anything to add on the subject (I'm bi, and not a Christian, though I do know the Bible pretty well), but I do want to say that I think it is a very cool thing that you are open and comfortable in your faith, and your writing. I can see that being a hard balance to find, and it's nice to see someone so confident in it.

[nerowill.livejournal.com]

Thank you for this thoughtful post! As a christian who reads a lot of slash, I've given the issue quite a bit of thought, but I've never expressed it this well.

My conccern for myself has always been less the homosexual nature of the stories and more the amount of time I spend reading them instead of getting other things accomplished... I'm well and truly addicted!

*waiting out the evil Xander/Harmony bunny hoping for more slash*

[windandsummer.livejournal.com]

Its people like the one who wrote the email that send others away from the church. I may not be Christian but I was raise in a Christian home and know how important having that faith is to those who truly believe, and to shun others simply because there beliefs don’t match perfectly with yours does a lot more harm than good. I think you should be proud of yourself for looking at your sexuality and beliefs logically and moving on from there. Choosing to believe despite what others say only makes you stronger. I wish you the best .~B

[missus-grace.livejournal.com]

So I'm sitting in church this morning, fantasizing about slash, and me and JM, and Spike and anybody, and wondering if that made me a hypocrite.

Your post came at a good time to remind me that yeah, it's okay. I should probably pay better attention during church, though :)

And what a relief to know that others are in the same shoes we are!

[japewierd.livejournal.com]

Wait, eating bacon sandwiches gets me a free pass to hell? I'm so glad I don't believe in formal religion *g*

[bars-of-orion.livejournal.com]

I enjoyed the way my priest put it during the homily a few weeks ago: "There are 60 some odd admonitions against homosexuals in the bible and 300 plus for heterosexuals. It's not that God loves heterosexuals less, it's just that they need more supervision."

[loony-sasquatch.livejournal.com]

*insert random comment here*

I enjoyed the way my priest put it during the homily a few weeks ago: "There are 60 some odd admonitions against homosexuals in the bible and 300 plus for heterosexuals. It's not that God loves heterosexuals less, it's just that they need more supervision."

That's just too freakin' funny! Had me laughing my head off. Thanks :D

[sparrow2000.livejournal.com]

YOu know it's funny. I was up at my Dad's house the other week and I came across my "child's bible" on the shelf of my old room that I hadn't stayed in, in years. I sat down on the floor and started to read and the years rolled back. The things I love about the bible as I remember it as a kid is that they were great "stories", (not fact) that informed my understanding of the reference points of art and literature as I grew towards adulthood and still stay with me today. I have a very deep seated personal faith, but it's not rooted in any one church or in the teachings of the Bible, for me it's a reference point for understanding other people's views of the world, not a bit of dogma to chastise other people with.

Sorry I didn't mean to get all philosophical, you continue to write what your muse dictates and let others natter to themselves. We're all here waiting to see what you come up with next - slash, het, gen - it's the good writing that counts, not the slant of the story and we all know you have that talen in spades.

[doingsoso.livejournal.com]

You go girl:) I agree. I've talked til I'm blue in the face to some people, but jeesh, it seems as though they just can't grasp the idea. They just have to put God in a little box, and stick a label on it, then make a bunch of rules. See it's easier if you have all these rules and everything is laid out for them. Then they don't actually have to figure things out for themselves. Sigh, I really hate it when they call a church building the "House of God." That just lights my fire big time.